Curse

Super Igor · Nov 11, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

Thought you'd be the last person I'd have to tell Shadow Fang's DW is irrelevant >.>

Irrelevant yes but it still has dw. :P

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Anyways, KDs = juice. Ain't gonna argue that. But how is that combo more powerful? I mean, I could also swap out a PvE skill for rez, but moar power = gud.

Well, it has two falling skills, spider and lotus, bos, trampliing and ymlad deals some big dommages I think you end up dealing more damage.

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Also, read up. I ain't running this unless an Imbagon takes care of me. Shadowsteps are for those with <170AL.

How are you shadowstepping?

Bobby2 · Nov 11, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I'm going to trample all over you now

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Irrelevant yes but it still has dw

Bullsh*t. That DW is inflicted only upon Shadow Fang's end, which is when either
a) the target has died - hey, you might as well have used a DW to kill it
b) after 10 seconds, and if you're satisfied with 10 sec kills you should gtfo

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Well, it has two falling skills, spider and lotus, bos, trampliing and ymlad deals some big dommages I think you end up dealing more damage.

Are you serious? Trampling Ox, 'big domage'? YMLAD is a good skill but doesn't benefit from Asuran Scan and/or IatS!

Igor, please try teh build first kthx??? What it lacks in KDs it makes up for in truly excessive damage

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

How are you shadowstepping?

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Originally Posted by Me, earlier

And no I don't need a shadowstep, cuz I'm in it's face. I can do that, because there's an Imbagon with me. Otherwise I'd be running MS/DB with SY! myself.

I'm not!

Super Igor · Nov 11, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

I'm going to trample all over you now

*crys in fear*

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Bullsh*t. That DW is inflicted only upon Shadow Fang's end, which is when either
a) the target has died - hey, you might as well have used a DW to kill it
b) after 10 seconds, and if you're satisfied with 10 sec kills you should gtfo

Yeah but in theory it has dw! xD

Ok, I stop annoying ya nao, dw from fang is irrelevant sure but still a nice shadowstep thanks to lack of aftercast.

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Are you serious? Trampling Ox, 'big domage'? YMLAD is a good skill but doesn't benefit from Asuran Scan and/or IatS!

You can chuck asuran scan or iats in there. What I really like about that bar is that you jump, kill, jump, kill, jump, kill without any silly running around casting enchies and kd-lock, really like the kd-lock otherwise you end up dealing moar dommages with your build. :x

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Igor, please try teh build first kthx??? What it lacks in KDs it makes up for in truly excessive damage

NOEZ, I like MS/DB! QQ

...

Kkz, but I want to change your combo something tells me you can do better than [black mantis thrust][golden fang strike][wild blow][blades of steel].

Bobby2 · Nov 12, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Kkz, but I want to change your combo something tells me you can do better than [black mantis thrust][golden fang strike][wild blow][blades of steel].

I think not. The beef I've always had with the build Unreal posted were its lack of free slots (again, I like PvE skills, and Assassin's Promise just screams for abuse), and its horrid vulnerability against even minor Hex resistance.

Didn't need the shadowstep, as explained before. [asuran scan] is a way better cover Hex anyway; instant-cast, 5sec (!) recharge, doesn't bounce you out of kill range upon removal.

[i am the strongest] is a skill used BY YOURSELF in proving some DPS point waaaay back (remember the pic?), makes even auto-attacks deal impressive damage etc.

Wanting all of this with AP and Agility, left me with only 4 slots for actual attacks.

[black mantis thrust][golden fang strike] takes care of the essentials without pussyfooting around.
[blades of steel] because I'm as much of a showoff as the next guy.
[wild blow] because it ends stances, refreshes agility, doesn't ever break up your chain, and fills in as 4th for BoS.

You could take an, expected maybe, O-D-O-D chain but... none of them snare or end stances

With both Scan and IatS! guaranteeing damage, utility needs to come from attack skills. Be glad we have it available.

Shorter natural recharges on both attack skills and cover Hex makes it a bit more resilient as well.

EDIT: oh and Igor, you can chuck Shadow Fang in there somewhere if you must be hopping around ninja-like - as Unreal explained any Promise build can effectively run it. I just don't think it's worth the slot cuz IMA BATTLE LION.

Super Igor · Nov 12, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

[i am the strongest] is a skill used BY YOURSELF in proving some DPS point waaaay back (remember the pic?), makes even auto-attacks deal impressive damage etc.

Aint arguing that [i am the strongest] is very very sexy, although mah uber dps build was so impractical. QQ

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Wanting all of this with AP and Agility, left me with only 4 slots for actual attacks.

[black mantis thrust][golden fang strike] takes care of the essentials without pussyfooting around.
[blades of steel] because I'm as much of a showoff as the next guy.
[wild blow] because it ends stances, refreshes agility, doesn't ever break up your chain, and fills in as 4th for BoS.

Waitwut, [wild blow] triggers BoS? oO

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cuz IMA BATTLE LION.

Hay saxay!

tho, wizard ninjas > battle lions, discuss.

Bobby2 · Nov 12, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Aint arguing that [i am the strongest] is very very sexy, although mah uber dps build was so impractical. QQ

Yes it was. Now imagine this pwning unremovable buff being permanent.

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Waitwut, [wild blow] triggers BoS? oO

Know ur skillz, check wiki if you must.

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

Hay saxay!

tho, wizard ninjas > battle lions, discuss.

Hahaha

No

Super Igor · Nov 12, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

Yes it was. Now imagine this pwning unremovable buff being permanent.

This statement makes me want to be good at reaction images, in a good way.

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Know ur skillz, check wiki if you must.

Ups happens. :P

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Hahaha

No

Hahaha

Yes

Unreal Havoc · Nov 14, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

Thought you'd be the last person I'd have to tell Shadow Fang's DW is irrelevant >.>

Should you be fighting targets with a decent amount of health (HM for example) the Deep Wound that triggers when you shadow step back is normally enough to kill your target coupled with the degen from poison inflicted.

faraaz · Nov 14, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

The annoying thing about Shadowfang tho is that the juicy stuff triggers right when you arent up in their face to take advantage of it.

Bobby2 · Nov 15, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Should you be fighting targets with a decent amount of health (HM for example) the Deep Wound that triggers when you shadow step back is normally enough to kill your target coupled with the degen from poison inflicted.

The build does what, 620-ish damage? I'm sorry, but against serious baddies that's no solo kill. Not to mention you're going to rely -completely- on your allies when Fang gets removed before you got your chain off. Of course they're undoubtedly leet enough to compensate, but it's a weakness that quickly annoyed me.

Unreal Havoc · Nov 15, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

The build does what, 620-ish damage? I'm sorry, but against serious baddies that's no solo kill. Not to mention you're going to rely -completely- on your allies when Fang gets removed before you got your chain off. Of course they're undoubtedly leet enough to compensate, but it's a weakness that quickly annoyed me.

Hex removal is not that common, it's PvE not PvP! Not only that but cover hexing from team mates is good. Plus you're forgetting the fact the target is quarter knocked so will unlikey remove the hex himself when you deal the spike (Why are you not targeting the Monk first?). Ideally the by the time you finish your spike the target should be dead anyway, just pointing out the benefits incase that isn't the case.

Also if you want deep wound in the bar earlier you can easily take Twisting Fangs over Blades of Steel, the obvious difference being less damage if you deliver your spike then teleport out if the target is still alive as Deep Wound is already inflicted.

Bobby2 · Nov 15, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Hex removal is not that common, it's PvE not PvP! Not only that but cover hexing from team mates is good. Plus you're forgetting the fact the target is quarter knocked so will unlikey remove the hex himself when you deal the spike (Why are you not targeting the Monk first?). Ideally the by the time you finish your spike the target should be dead anyway, just pointing out the benefits incase that isn't the case.

Again, I wasn't arguing against KDs. But sometimes there are multiple Monks. Sometimes you get screwed over by Blind/block. Sometimes you're stuck with 45 sec recharges.

[asuran scan][black mantis thrust][golden fang strike][wild blow][blades of steel] = 8 seconds... you can 'wing it' quite decently.

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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Also if you want deep wound in the bar earlier you can easily take Twisting Fangs over Blades of Steel, the obvious difference being less damage if you deliver your spike then teleport out if the target is still alive as Deep Wound is already inflicted.

It shouldn't have to last 10 seconds, ever, so Twisting Fangs is mandatory imho. Spike without DW isn't srs bznz.

Unreal Havoc · Nov 15, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

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Originally Posted by Bobby2

Again, I wasn't arguing against KDs. But sometimes there are multiple Monks. Sometimes you get screwed over by Blind/block. Sometimes you're stuck with 45 sec recharges.

If your actually putting yourself in that position in the first place then that says alot. Multiple Monks aren't really a problem with a half decent team that knows how to split its attention.

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It shouldn't have to last 10 seconds, ever, so Twisting Fangs is mandatory imho. Spike without DW isn't srs bznz.

The damage difference between Blades of Steel and Twisting Fangs is minimal to be honest. The little extra degen is nice though but its really down to personal preference. No one can guarantee a targets death in under 10 seconds unless you all hit the one target, which defies the point of running a build that is designed to split from the group and deal with a target on its own anyway.

Bobby2 · Nov 15, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

If your actually putting yourself in that position in the first place then that says alot. Multiple Monks aren't really a problem with a half decent team that knows how to split its attention.

/sigh

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Originally Posted by me, earlier, on your allies

Of course they're undoubtedly leet enough to compensate, but it's a weakness that quickly annoyed me.

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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

The damage difference between Blades of Steel and Twisting Fangs is minimal to be honest. The little extra degen is nice though but its really down to personal preference. No one can guarantee a targets death in under 10 seconds unless you all hit the one target, which defies the point of running a build that is designed to split from the group and deal with a target on its own anyway.

[blades of steel] under the effects of [i am the strongest][asuran scan]? Big difference.

As for the bolded area: but one can come pretty damn close

Super Igor · Nov 15, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I just put a useless comment here so carebears get ragey and see what will happen. :>

Sir Pandra Pierva · Nov 25, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Hmm i wonder
[critical agility]
[assassin's promise]
[shadow fang]
["you move like a dwarf!"]
[falling lotus strike]
[twisting fangs]
[golden phoenix strike]
[blades of steel]

no rez but who needs a rez when you have hard rezers for backline and a imbagon for support. Do people really hate golden phoenix strike? i almost never see people use it
also if ur worried about them ripping ur enchants you can switch aroun the skill order to
golden phoenix
twisting
YmLad
falling lotus
blades

that should still kill them and youll probolly wont have to worry about an enchant rip. since evne if it gets ripped after you hit with the first skill then you can still kill em and get a full recharge